"NEAR left for dead on Eros"
"A NASA probe on the surface of a deep space asteroid was scheduled to be cut off from contact with Earth on Wednesday, following a brief reprieve in which scientists squeezed out additional data from an onboard instrument. "
This article appears in today's cnn.com - I was struck with its clinical tone and wondered if it's the best we can collectively do at this time with Eros.
Mark
Here is the sonnet by Shakespeare that I promised to post on the board for all to share--Brenda
Since I left you, mine eye is in my mind; And that which governs me to go about Doth part his function and is partly blind, Seems seeing, but effectually is out; For it no form delivers to the heart Of bird, of flower, or shape, which it doth latch: Of his quick objects hath the mind no part, Nor his own vision holds what it doth catch; For if it see the rud'st or gentlest sight, The most sweet favour or deformed'st creature, The mountain or the sea, the day or night, The crow or dove, it shapes them to your feature: Incapable of more, replete with you, My most true mind thus maketh mine untrue.
In response to Ben's question about who benefits from the ecstatic experience, I would not see it as an either or situation - but both/and. In reading about the Hindu "trance possession" (which is ecstasy as we have discussed it) Huyler writes: When it is over, the person is often exhausted but elated. People who are possessed usually claim great insights and deep inner peace. Those who witness this transformation feel that they are in the presence of the Divine and that their lives are enhanced by the experience." And to Mark - the "horror" in the Fauve works for me was precisely the raw, primal color and emotion evoked, and what I at first saw as totally "unreal" representation of nature. I had numbed myself to feelings for the five years prior to this experience in order to survive and function. This is no doubt akin to my revulsion to people speakign in tongues when I was a child. It's "horrifying" to be out of control, no? Too like "madness"?! Even now, seeking to really "let go" and trust the Divine totally feels pretty risky. I loved the quote from "The Door to Joy" - 'God is a tiger! You'd better watch out if you ever succeed in falling into his (or HER) cave.'
Sallie
Thanks for the notice regarding Fred Curchack's Bakkhai. I missed the live performance, but I do happen to know that a video recording of the performance will be shown at the upcoming Dallas Video Festival (March 14-18 www.videofest.org ) The Bakkhai will be shown on Friday, March 16, 9:00 PM.
Regarding Ben's question, I believe that ecstatic experience is very beneficial to both the individual and the the group depending, of course, on how it is contained and handled.
Thank you, Sallie, for your description of the "aesthetic experience" that transported you into an ecstatic state. I gather from your description that there was something about his work that struck you as horrific. In looking at some of his images on the Internet, I wonder what it was that repelled you at first.
M
I forgot to include the definition from this weeks reading - Beyond Words - which really spoke to the experience I wrote about above: "Ecstasy is an experience that is beyond verbal and intellectual comprehension, a glimpse of another existance and completely different from ordinary attitudes and viewpoints"
Sallie
Saturday 17 February, from Sallie
Several times since last week I have thought about what I have always called an “aesthetic experience” which seems the same as what we have been reading about ecstasy. My art appreciation class at Eastfield in the fall of 1976 was team-taught that semester by the philosophy and art professors. It was an experiment on their part to approach art phenomonologically as opposed to the usual linear, historical study. They proposed that there was such a thing as “the aesthetic experience” to be reached if one could really get to the essence of a piece of art. We were given this formula for how to do this, and then went from one art exhibit to another throughout the semester, using this formula. There was a Fauve Exhibit at the Kimball to which we were bused one afternoon. I remember so well that the first two enormous pieces by Derain at the beginning of the Exhibit literally took my breath away in horror. And my immediate fear was that I was never going to be able to stay with any of these awful pieces long enough to get through our formula. I went through the exhibit twice trying to find canvasses that I might be able to tolerate for this assignment. I finally decided on another work of Derain’s - The River Seine at Chateau - which I learned later is owned by the Kimball. I stood before it with my “Nothing Book” (our journals for the class) and began to describe the piece - then began to bracket all the stories, associations, ideas, etc. which emerged as I described what I saw. I have no idea how long I did this - but think that perhaps it was no more than half an hour, if that. Suddenly, and much to my surprise, this beautiful work of art and I were one - ALL boundaries were gone. And my experience of all the Fauve works was forever altered. In fact, my entire view of art period was altered. What had initially appeared to me as we entered the Exhibit as grotesque, unreal paintings were now the most real of all in the museum. I went to another wing of the museum to look at works that I had always liked before, and they were dull and totally unexciting. But going back to the Fauve pieces, I was exhilarated - energized. I found, indeed, that I was ecstatic. And the feeling lasted for hours. I was high as a kite all the way back to Dallas. No longer did I doubt that an aesthetic experience was a real possibility. I have never had a repeat of that same feeling with another work of art. But the transformation was forever, and opened doors for me later that I had never anticipated. Now I wonder if that was what Derain experienced when he painted that piece. Of all the Fauve works, his are still my favorites from that short-lived “movement” in the art world. Never, in all these years, had I connected this phenomenal experience as one with the Divine - the gods - with ecstasy.
Last night's class has really sparked some new insights and raised new questions about my past history with Persephone and Kali - Goddesses who have been really powerful for me, within me. It's being a great experience to be back into thinking archetypally. Sallie
Thought perhaps I should finally introduce myself via this message board as I have really enjoyed getting to know each of you a little from your introductions. As I stated in our first class, my educational background is Religious Studies and Psychology (SMU) with further graduate study in archcetypal psychology from UD. I went back to school for my degrees on VA benefits from my husband who was Missing in Action in Laos.(I had returned to Dallas where I was born when he left for Southeast Asia in 1970.) My motivation for pursuing this education had been to become the Director of Christian Education in my Church. But alas, the fates apparently had other intentions. To make a long story short, after I graduated from UD I was called to the field of abortion counseling, and remained in that arena for 13 years. After I left the Clinic I took my life to Ireland for 3 years, and have only been back stateside for a couple years now, still waiting for the next call. In the meantime I am enjoying time with my two oldest sons and their children. My youngest son lives in NY City. I have come to believe that my time back in Dallas is about the completion of a long cycle (30 years)here. Many unexpected connections and re-connections have occured this past year. I am also writing about my experiences - a sort of spiritual autobiography if you will. Sallie Stratton
from Linda Sprague . . . . A few weeks ago the Sunday "New York Times Magazine" had a cover article titled "The Pursit of Ecstasy" (reflections on the lure of a potent little pill)!! In the retelling of his first experience with Ecstasy (MDMA), the author, Matthew Klam has this to say: "I had nostalgia for the moment I was living. I experienced a kind of wordless glory. This was the best I'd ever felt in my life." Later on in the article, other words convey the "sweet-bitter" transformation of MDMA usage: "The more aggressively you search for the most profound experience of your life, the more rigid, narrowing, dispiriting and routine it becomes."
I really like that statement! Take away the chemical and you still have the same statement. Is ecstasy something we can go get, find, pick off the shelf at the supermarket? Or is it a moment of grace that fills one unexpectedly? And what happens if we insist that we be filled continually?
Are there certain routines one adheres to in order to call in the ecstatic graces? Is it important to go through the routines and not be disappointed that 99.9% of the time there will be no visit at all? In relationship, for example, after the initial sweet phase, the majority of the exchange will be routine. But every so often, zap, here comes the ecstasy.
In religious practice, one does not assume that each and every visit to the place of worship (or each trip to the wilderness or each meditation session) will produce a feeling of connectedness with the Divine. And yet people continue to go for that one split second of grace.
I will bring this article tomorrow night in case anyone in the group would like to look at it.
Hello, all! I just got to the site and see that Ben has left some very provocative thoughts and questions. Thank you so much for the Thoreau quotes, Ben. Regarding your question about ecstasy being experienced alone or in a group, I think that when it happens in a group, it is quite marvelous as this utmost personal experience occuring amongst others is a wonderful metaphor for the paradox of existence. The One being made up of the Many and the Many each being a separate manifestation of the One.
I'll think more about your comments. In the meantime, here are some thoughts of mine:
There are a couple of quotes in this week's reading that have really struck a chord within me. Both of them are in Ma Jaya Sati Bhagavati's article, "Kali Who Swallows the Universe."
"With human love, you love one person. Your bodies come together and then apart. With God love, you are that person you love, and you need never to part, ever" (21).
and
" . . . you can only breathe in the moment, and the moment is rich" (18).
The first quote supports some thoughts I've been having about the nature of desire, or Eros, who the Romans called, Cupid and Amor. Her quote refers to a transcendence I believe all humans long for. In the arena of love and relationships, this longing often finds positive expression. What is truly marvelous is that 'falling in love' can and often does provide such bliss and euphoria. We feel we have entered the 'other' world through some sort of inter-dimensional miracle.
As David Miller said to us in a lecture last year in Washington, our expression 'love is bitter-sweet' is oddly reversed since the Greeks called it 'sweet-bitter.' He pointed out that the progression of events in love usually follows the latter order instead of the former!
So, 'falling in love,' appears to be a good way to explain to a greater number of people what ecstatic states are acutally like. I believe they are very much connected. One question is, 'what is a bitter aspect of ecstasy?
Mark
here are some disconnected thoughts after our 1st class and articles:
is ecstasy a lasting, positive feeling , over-overwehlming ? also the goal of a worship ceremony in group ? it doesn't take by surprise, and is not negative . it produce a warm sense of oneness.
do i feel extasy in front of absolute beauty ? it sounds the counterpart of what i feel by disgust. what about witnessing violence of war or genocide ? we'd probably feel a new respect for life and essentials.
if i understand it correctly it is very close to a new mystcism based on awareness .
it reminds me and can be seen as an extension of contemplative behaviour of romantics facing Nature spectacle.
i went back to Henry Thoreau and found this: "speak to men as to gods and you will not be insincere" "why level down to our dullest perception always, and praise that as a common sense ? the commonest sense is the sense of men asleep" "the earth which is spread out like a map around me is but the lining of my inmost soul exposed" "my profession is always to be alert , to find God in nature, to know God's lurking places, to attend all the oratorios and operas in nature."
C Jung : "we must ask : have i any religious experience and immediate relation to God ? to this question there is a positive answer only when the individual is willing to fulfill the demands of rigotous self-examionation and selfknowledge"
ben-
Hello, classmates! My name is Linda Sprague. My background is in anthropology and folklore studies (M.A. Indiana University). I have lived many lives in the 20 plus years I have been in Dallas. Most currently my work clusters under an umbrella called, "CPR for the Soul." I read horoscopes and all forms of Tarot and cards of symbology. Certified in trauma recovery, I guide souls through grief to renewal. In addition to a structured trauma recovery process, I utilize many tools: visualization and reframing, folktales, mythology and neo-shamanic ceremonies. Currently I am studying Vedic Astrology. Looking forward to meeting everyone.
Greetings fellow class members. My name is Debbie Simms, I live in Norman, OK and am eager to begin our class tomorrow night. Professionally, I am an Art Therapist, Licensed Psychotherapist, and teach at the University of Oklahoma. I am a visual artist, however not in a professional capacity (though, probably a "wanna be"). Personally, I have two children, was raised Protestant, but converted to Catholicism as an Adult, and have lived and practiced in Dallas and Chicago. In the past year I experienced two major losses, closed my 10-year clinical private practice, changed to a new media in my artwork and turned 44 years of age. My interests include the linkage of the personal and collective unconscious through visual imagery. Symbolism, ritual, myth, and generally Archetypal Psychology are the theoretical bedrocks for my work and personal life. I received a "post grad" two year certificate in the writings of C.G.Jung from the the Jung Institute in Chicago about 10 years ago and continued my readings since then. Now, living in Oklahoma I get thirsty for dialogue and exercise in this area of thought. Look forward to meeting ya' all. djs
Hello, I’m Debbie Rhodus. I’m currently a real estate attorney working for Invesco Realty Advisors, an investment manager investing money for pension funds in commercial real estate. I’ve been practicing law for about 15 years. In some of my other occupations, I’ve been a psychologist with Walter Reed Army Hospital in Washington, D.C., a full-time mother and a co-owner of a landscape company. I like variety and so I’m now trying to come up with what to do next. I think that the pendulum may be swinging back to psychology, but with a Jungian influence rather than the scientific, experimental bias I once espoused. I'm very interested in finding my vocation this time around and have found the concepts of the Self, unconscious, dreams, and midlife changes to be very important in my search. I’m also become very interested in meditation and Buddhism and am involved with a couple of the local groups. My hobbies include photography, gardening and tennis. I’m married to another attorney with an interest in religion. We have two grown sons: Tommy, an architect practicing in Dallas, and Keith, a graduate student in communications at USC who will soon be going to the London School of Economics.
My name is Brenda Spencer. My primary interests are Art, Archetypal Psychology and Psychoanalysis, Music, Movies, Photography, and Sacred Geometry. Fascinated with the exploration and possibilities of the human mind, I study consciousness. I love approaching works from a cosmological viewpoint or looking at cross cultural art forms to explore our common humanity and the power of the mind and imagination. I am particularly interested in studying the "transpersonal" as opposed to merely the "intra-personal" or "inter-personal." I am currently taking piano lessons, and I played the viola in a string quartet when I was going up in Abilene. I am also playing with dark room photography with an emphasis in infrared film and hand coloring.
I am married to Nelson, have two daughters: Melissa (a freshman at Scripps, one of the Claremont Colleges in California, and studying studio art) and Priscilla, a sophomore at The Hockaday School.
I worked in Commercial Interior Design doing architectural drafting in planning of major corporate headquarters. I have the MLA degree from SMU. I work on community service projects, currently chairing the annual fund-raising Gala for the Dallas Institute to be held February l0 at the Fairmont's Venetian Room.
My name is Mary Vernon. I teach drawing and painting at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. In Fall, 2000 I had shows in Chicago, Almaty Kazakhstan, and Kranj, Slovenia, as well as in Texas. I am a member of the contributing faculty of Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara, California, and I lecture nationally on art and artists. I studied at University of California, Berkeley, and at University of New Mexico, Albuquerque. My book illustrations include: James Hillman's Anima: An Anatomy of a Personified Notion. I grew up in the Pecos valley, in Southern New Mexico. The land outside the valleys is desert land, of subtle and nuanced color, its variation great, its values pale, its shadows intense and chromatic. The painted, wooden Santos bore saturated, matte-finished coats of paint, and the Immaculate Conception statue in the local church had a blue neon halo. The rocks my father used to build our house held grays worthy of Whistler. In the valleys, the wind more often than not tossed the leaves of the willows, apple trees, pecans, and lilacs about in the air so that all the complex greens were dulled and robbed of their glossy surfaces. The weather announced itself days ahead of time by minute changes in the sky. Gardens of hollyhocks, daisies, and old asparagus grew quickly and made dense patterns. That landscape taught me what to look for.
Hello, I thought I would start this off by saying a few things about myself. I have been in Dallas for nearly two and a half years after spending six months in Italy and nine years in Los Angeles, CA. I started graduate school in 1994 after working in the computer world for several years. Since getting my degree in late 1999, I have been finding applications for archetypal and mythological perspectives in teaching, traveling and making documentary, spoof and narrative videos. Although not a clinical psychologist by training, I bring a psychological perspective with me to all of these endeavors. When I'm lucky, I enter the realm of myth and story! I am looking forward to meeting those of you I have never met and seeing familiar faces.
My interest in ecstatic worship became more clearly defined as I reached the end of my dissertation on Orpheus and the 'Orphic' myth of Dionysos. It was in that work that I started making connections between purpose and ecstasy. I went to Brazil for a month in April of 2000 to video tape ecstatic worship in several settings and am now in post-production with that video.
See you in a week!
Mark
PS no one will see this message board except for our group.